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Ishtar vs Vagabond

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Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 07:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2006 07:25:22 Originally by: xeom Currently its really hard to kill a vaga because of stabs. Once the wcs nerf comes in i would think both a ishtar & cerebus could kill a vaga easly. Depends on the nerf. Last time I heard about the wcs nerf, I think they were discussing -20% targeting speed and +20% signature radius? So yeah, having a few wcs would indeed make the Vaga take so much damage that its no longer viable for its role as a hit & run ship. Caldari & Gallente will be back at the top, and the Tuxford order is restored. The only reason that gallente and caldari get away with being overpowered is because they have so many players. I guess its noticable when they get beat by something, because then a huge number of people will start whining. But hey, if you cant beat them, join them. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 07:39:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2006 07:39:04 Originally by: Chee I never fly with stabs, and it works perfectly fine without them. The tactics dont change, your just screwed when u make a mistake with the nerf in the vaga. (and rightly so imo) Ishtar vs Vaga should make a vaga run. If the ishtar pilot is rich and uses 19km nos he actually stands a chance on catching him if he plays smart. Vaga cant tank the drones long enough to break the ishtar tank, and killing all the drones take too long. Thats my experience at least. maybe there are people out there who did beat ishtars. So why isnt the ishtar overpowered? It seems to me that the Vaga is overpowered when another hac cant kill it. But when the ishtar or cerberus kills another hac, its the way it should be? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 08:23:00 - [3] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2006 08:24:04 Originally by: Chee the stabnerf is an issue not directly related to hac's but will certainly even things out for the vaga. Heh, yeah... lets just say that im selling my Vagabonds before the nerf. Then perhaps rebuying them after the nerf. I think it will have a massive effect on the Vaga prices. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 09:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Gariuys Vaga isn't really overpowered, it just favors a certain playstyle... ( stab***** ) Cerberus was made overpowered, and ishtar was overpowered on release, but was given crappy bonuses for that reason... and wasn't so bad when nos wheren't flavor of the month and ignoring EW. The bonus to drone damage could be lower though. Whats bugging me is that its OK that some ships are overpowered and everybody just accepts it for what it is. But when a minmatar or amarr ship is better than the established caldari & gallente superiority, its deemed as "wrong" and should be corrected. Why? Its just so wrong... every race should have their strong ships, and not just caldari and gallente in my opinion. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 09:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire 1 pilot can kill a smart or stupid Amarr, Caldari or Gallente HAC pilot. 2-3 pilots are needed to kill a smart Vagabond pilot. Kinda sad TBH. The Vaga SHOULD be hard to catch. If its up vs 2-3 pilots, it will most likely have to warp out since it cannot sustain the damage. Running away is more of a loss than a win in my book. I dont think you have ever flown one...most pilots that actually do fly them says thay they spend alot of time running away, probably more so than actually winning the fights. The Vaga is good for 1 vs 1, which is its purpose in the game. Even the description says "for guerilla work, the vagabond cant be beat". For once, thats actually true. There is nothing wrong with the Vaga, and after the wcs nerf, life in one will become quite dangerous. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:12:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2006 10:14:57 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire If Hoshi is right about WCS, it will not effect the Vagabond. No Vagabond with 2 WCS is going to engage at 60km. It is a close range ship. Vagabond should be hard to catch but in the current patch, Vagabond is almost impossible to catch unless the pilot is half asleep or slow in thinking. Yep, thats its purpose. You are simply assuming its wrong for a ship to not be easily catchable, when its really not. I can go on and on about how ecm ravens and ecm dominix rules the 1 vs 1 battleship fights, or how drone carriers in general are almost impossible to beat, or how elite frigates are very hard to kill in larger ships, but you already know these things. Now ecm will hopefully get nerfed and balance out the madness, and wcs too. I just hope we dont see a caldari or gallente ship as the "best" in every damn category, because its frankly not fair to the ones who invest millions of skillpoints in those races to make them worse than the rest. Just think about it.. when was the last time you saw a "nerf typhoon" or "nerf tempest" in these forums? It doesnt happen. Why? Is it random factors that make caldari & gallente ships be seen as the best in the game? I dont think so. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Jim McGregor Yep, thats its purpose. You are simply assuming its wrong for a ship to not be easily catchable, when its really not. Well, I really hope the invention doesnt get released in Kali and leave it to another year. I am willing to bet that Vagabond price will overtake Cerberus price by a big margin. Vagabond is really no doubt the best/useful HAC in game. Yes, for solo work. Not for groups. Focused fire on a vagabond makes it go pop in seconds. Cerberus is much better for groups. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/08/2006 10:20:16 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, for solo work. Not for groups. Focused fire on a vagabond makes it go pop in seconds. Cerberus is much better for groups. Focus fire, huh? I wished it would go pop in seconds. Oh, we all have our experience and opinions. Yeah. Its hard to discuss these things from a game balance point of view when each of us have millions of skillpoints invested in the hac of our choice. In the end I guess its up to Tux, but I feel that he should really check the forums for any threads where people whine about amarr or minmatar ships being overpowered. I just wish that I would see some "typhoon is overpowered" or "tempest is overpowered" or "zealot","armageddon" is overpowered threads...but there are none. Very strange. My feelings is that minmatar/amarr has gotten so used to always being second best that they are just accepting it. Or switched to another race. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Aramendel Don't bother, Jim McGregor is for minnie ships that what Maya Rkell is for interceptors... Ever heard of throwing stones in a glass house...you are pretty much 100% pro-amarr from my experience... But yeah, its hard to discuss these things in a proper manner. I actually feel that BOTH amarr and minmatar needs to become better and get a real role in the game. I refuse to accept them as second best all the time. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Mekon Shraude I love these nerf the vaga threads! Especially from players who havnt flown them. After flying them for half a year you will see that they arnt that good. Feel free to elaborate. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Kunming player population goes like this: Caldari > Amarr > Gallente > Minmatar Are you talking about starting races here? Because im caldari but fly minnie ships. Even though im thinking about going gallente. Its interesting that gallente players say their ship sucks... it seems to be the most popular pvp race by far, at least judging from these forums. Specially the drone carriers are difficult to beat unless you are in a caldari missile spammer with their massive shields. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:44:00 - [12] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/08/2006 14:44:49 Originally by: dabster Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Vagabond is IMHO the most overpowered HAC in game. QFT lol its great seeing people reply with ZERO clue or logic behind the whole thing Jennys post and the QFT match eachother in that way... At least Jenny wrote a better post further down. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:58:00 - [13] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Jim. You really think Vagabond isnt really the most useful or overpowered HAC in game? I tell you Vagabond is the only HAC that can be sold at 500M ISKs and people will still buy and use in PvP. Vagabond prices will soon start selling at 300M to 500M. Why would prices go UP with the wcs nerf? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Wizie Sorry, but your experience against Vaga pilots is very limited then. If you think so, what can I say? Dont have to believe me, believe the market. Vagabonds will sell at 500M and people will still buy and use them in PvP. You know you wouldnt complain if the ship was caldari. In fact you would say its perfectly balanced for its role. So i dont know... the argument here is pointless. Some future prediction that Vagas will be worth 500 mill and therefore are overpowered doesnt cut it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Vera Nosfyu Stuffs ... Numbers out of hat. MWD Interceptors, 4000 m/s, OK. MWD Cruisers, 1800 m/s, OK. MWD Cruisers, 4000 m/s, NOT OK. Porche, 180 mph, OK. Pajero, 100 mph, OK. Pajero, 180 mph, NOT OK. These comparisons are just worthless tbh. You dont take into account dps, tank, mass or anything. I could make a similar list for dps and put a "NOT OK" next to gallente, but whats the point? I think the Vaga is good for solo work, but will get killed quickly in a group, specially if painted. Since you dont fly one, you dont realize that they cant tank. The typical setup is just shield extenders to make it nos proof. You can use a small shield booster too, but almost every battleship will nos you, so its risky. Just train for one and fly it... I think the ship is severly overhyped, which is also supported abit by the ones who fly it in this thread. Im going to try my own in 2 weeks or so, and ill tell you when i get killed. Probably wont take long. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Adreena Varule pps... I fly caldari and gallente and WOW I so wish that blasters werenÆt so gimped... Blasters are gimped compared to what? Did you compare with autocannons or did you laugh too hard? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.26 12:54:00 - [17] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/08/2006 12:55:09 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix If it needs to run that much, how good can it possibly be... I think mostly Vaga manages to kill its victim, but runs away when the victim friends show up to blob him. That upsets people - they didnt get "revenge". So they come here and claim that Vagas need to be nerfed because they get away easily. I personally think all the drone carriers are pretty unbalanced. Using drones means you have all your high slots free for nos or whatever you like. But very few people complain about it, because they are gallente (or caldari, with the stupidly overpowered Raven). But when was the last time these posts led to something... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.29 16:25:00 - [18] Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd Vaga. Can't deal damage, Can't tank for toffee, but boy can it run. Ishtar Deals Damage, Tanks like a *****, Jams you, Noses you. Vaga fits stabs , so he runs away. Surely that means the ishtar wins by default. So if the vaga runs, Ishtar wins if the vaga doesn't run, he dies. Ishtar wins. There is no other possible outcome. Funny how that would be considered overpowered if it wasnt a gallente ship. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.30 14:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Luc Boye Originally by: Jim McGregor Funny how that would be considered overpowered if it wasnt a gallente ship. Yeh, and its funny how the pvp in eve consists of endless chain of pre-arranged 1v1's. So no point in having balanced ships because 1 vs 1 is rare? Well, thats one way to look at it... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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